Johnston woman challenges Boots in homeopathic "overdose" protest (From Western Telegraph)

Why do people use Homeopathic remedies on themselves and their pets. I will tell you why, Pets cannot tell you, they just get better. "HOMEOPATHY WORKS", if you take the correct remedy. The whole idea of Homeopathy is to treat like with like, and to safetly help the body to recovery. Unfortuneatly there is no cure in Homeopathy for ignorance and idiocracy. What right has any group to deny another of freedom of choice.
Numerous pharmaceuticals medicines are well documented in their toxicity to the human body. I do not know of any Homeapathic remedy that is toxic. If people believe they dont work, dont buy them! "I think Im goin mad Ted"
This group ( can one misinformed lady be counted as a group?)that are protesting about Homeopathic remedies, should be protesting about real dangers, such as "Aspartame" used as an artificial sweetener by the food industry. Look it up on the internet and see what you are consuming.

Hiya, I don't call myself "a group", nor do I take Aspartame. There is actually no "like" to treat "like" in homeopathy pills: they contain only sugar and water. (Before you accuse me of being a Big Pharma saleswoman, it's Big Pharma that makes these products.) We did the maths, and there is one molecule of "active ingredient" to every approximately 10,000,000,000,000,0
00,000,000,000,000,0
00 water molecules in a 30C dilution - then this water evaporates anyway!

We're seeking not so much banning as education. If you feel ill, then you generally get better whatever you have taken, including nothing, and then attribute it to whatever you did. The body heals itself very well. Also the mere act of taking a medicine can give you a confidence boost, which makes you feel better. Please by all means take it if it works for you - but don't market it as real medicine for serious conditions, or try to enforce it on other people, or insult those who disagree with you.

Over 150 studies already show that homeopathy works no better than ordinary placebos - hence the Boots director's ignorance in his statement. "Research that doesn't produce the results I want" is not "not enough research". Obviously some people swear by homeopathy, and such people are welcome to it; but I expect the same could be said for wearing a charm bracelet. One thing that prompted me to take part in this protest was a woman's account of her mother being told by a homeopath to cease taking medication for her heart disease - this advice killed her. I am protesting about a real danger. Please, do have a look at the www.1023.org.uk website to find out more.

What a sad lady and a sad campaign this is!

Alice Sheppard wrote:
Hiya, I don't call myself "a group", nor do I take Aspartame. There is actually no "like" to treat "like" in homeopathy pills: they contain only sugar and water. (Before you accuse me of being a Big Pharma saleswoman, it's Big Pharma that makes these products.) We did the maths, and there is one molecule of "active ingredient" to every approximately 10,000,000,000,000,0

00,000,000,000,000,0

00 water molecules in a 30C dilution - then this water evaporates anyway!

We're seeking not so much banning as education. If you feel ill, then you generally get better whatever you have taken, including nothing, and then attribute it to whatever you did. The body heals itself very well. Also the mere act of taking a medicine can give you a confidence boost, which makes you feel better. Please by all means take it if it works for you - but don't market it as real medicine for serious conditions, or try to enforce it on other people, or insult those who disagree with you.

Over 150 studies already show that homeopathy works no better than ordinary placebos - hence the Boots director's ignorance in his statement. "Research that doesn't produce the results I want" is not "not enough research". Obviously some people swear by homeopathy, and such people are welcome to it; but I expect the same could be said for wearing a charm bracelet. One thing that prompted me to take part in this protest was a woman's account of her mother being told by a homeopath to cease taking medication for her heart disease - this advice killed her. I am protesting about a real danger. Please, do have a look at the www.1023.org.uk website to find out more.

Vets have used Homeopathy on animals for years, with great success. These animals have been treated when conventional medicine, which has failed. A placebo would not work on an animal. How do Homeopathy sceptics argue that. I am glad to hear you do not take Aspartame. I used Aspartame to make the point on really dangerous additions to food and drink. If your group 102.org.uk were successful in their objectives of removing Homeopathic remedies from the shelves of Boots, how would the people that purchase them off Boots obtain them. I think what you say about if you feel unwell, you will get better what ever you take, even if you take nothing, is a bit misguided. I can believe any Homeopath worth is salts,would advise a patient to discard their medicine. Especially something so serious, as a heart condition. Where did you get this information from. I have my suspicions on the true objectives of 1023.org.uk. Have you heard of Codex Alimentarius. See web site below.
http://www.natural-h
ealth-information-ce
ntre.com/codex-alime
ntarius.html

This was one of about 400 people across the UK involved in this campaign to highlight homeopathy.

Not only does homeopathy not work but it makes claims for treating HIV, malaria, cancer and a whole range of serious conditions without robust evidence to support this.

It is not harmless as it wastes NHS resources and dupes the vulnerable, especially in the 3rd world, into delaying seeking more effective treatment.

Homeopathy is a big industry with many people and companies, including Alliance Boots, profiting from a craving for cures Homeopathy cannot ever deliver

kingofmumu

There is no debate about freedom of choice. If people want to spend their money on homeopathy then they are free to do so. However, Boots is - or was - a trusted name and they are giving homeopathy unearned respectability by selling the stuff, next to proven medicines and labelled as medicines, leading people into thinking they are proper medicines.

Also, the NHS wastes a lot of money supporting this nonsense. They (or rather the MHRA) have two sets of rules: one for proper medicines that require them to demonstrate efficacy and another for homeopathic sugar pills that do not need to bother with all that evidence of efficacy nonsense.

This is misleading the public into thinking there is something in homeopathy when there isn't.

Another issue is that there are more than a few homeopaths who think they can provide protection against things like malaria - this puts people's lives at risk. Then there's the ones who have gone to Africa to cure HIV/AIDS with homeopathy instead of anti-retroviral drugs: these deluded homeopaths are killing people.


kevfromle

Why is a campaign (or someone who supports it) that seeks to inform the public that there is nothing in homeopathy, sad?

There is a good article on Why Bogus Therapies Seem to Work: http://www.csicop.or
g/SI/show/why_bogus_
therapies_seem_to_wo
rk/

These reasons apply to humans as well as other animals.

kingofmumu
ok i will ignore the first 2 sentences of tripe and jump straight to "treat like with like". As homeopaths like it as an example the common cold; sympthoms such as runny nose, blocked sinuses and streaming eyes, you suggest onion oil as a solution to 2 parts but the last thing i problem i ever complain with when working with onions is blocked sinuses. I am also wondering given the recent claims that homeopathy can cure cancer, aids, and 'gayness' Can you give us any insight as to what the like substance is used for each one of these?

You also mention going down the road of taking toxic substances in medicines what do you think of the fact the that one thing you need for life is also toxic in certain circumstances? In case you didnt know inhaling oxygen with a partial pressure of about 1.7bar is toxic to the human body. Also I know Alice didnt but certain other ten23 protestors took the homeopathic solution of Belladonna, or if you prefer its other name Deadly Nightshade, a nice little poison from the middle ages. So I am getting it wrong or are you condoning the taking of a known poison? Or is less deadly when added to a homeopathic solution that "makes it more potent"? Also I am puzzled by your reference to Aspartame. Are you suggesting that sweetner is a medicine? Maybe it is a homeopathic one but someone screwed up the doseage? Do Boots stock it? If they dont I cant really see the relevence to this topic.

If homeopathic vetinary treatments are so good you won't mind citing your sources, and i mean properly done trials and not the first 10 sites you google for. Also the vetinary treatments were they vaccines or are they specified illnesses?

You might notice that I feel very strongly about this matter, and only for a small issue with getting back from Havenport I would have been protesting beside Alice, and then it would have been a group.

Zeno001 wrote:
There is a good article on Why Bogus Therapies Seem to Work: http://www.csicop.or

g/SI/show/why_bogus_

therapies_seem_to_wo

rk/

These reasons apply to humans as well as other animals.

There is a good reason why drug companies knock Herbal/complimentary medicines,
it is protecting their billion dollar profits.
Pharmaceuticals along with the Petrochemical and the Cotton industry discredited and lobbied for the ban on Industrial Hemp. This was a crime against humanity, how can anyone allow these companies to provide so called safe medicines, when they are only interested in profits out of needless suffering. If you do not know about Industrial Hemp see site below. What Do you think about Colloidal Silver an anti bacterial and anti viral, for a solution for HIV/AIDS and Essiac a 4 herb complimentary Cancer therapy. I have successfully used both.

http://www.hempfarm.
org/Papers/Hemp_Fact
s.html

cathal wrote:
kingofmumu
ok i will ignore the first 2 sentences of tripe and jump straight to "treat like with like". As homeopaths like it as an example the common cold; sympthoms such as runny nose, blocked sinuses and streaming eyes, you suggest onion oil as a solution to 2 parts but the last thing i problem i ever complain with when working with onions is blocked sinuses. I am also wondering given the recent claims that homeopathy can cure cancer, aids, and 'gayness' Can you give us any insight as to what the like substance is used for each one of these?

You also mention going down the road of taking toxic substances in medicines what do you think of the fact the that one thing you need for life is also toxic in certain circumstances? In case you didnt know inhaling oxygen with a partial pressure of about 1.7bar is toxic to the human body. Also I know Alice didnt but certain other ten23 protestors took the homeopathic solution of Belladonna, or if you prefer its other name Deadly Nightshade, a nice little poison from the middle ages. So I am getting it wrong or are you condoning the taking of a known poison? Or is less deadly when added to a homeopathic solution that "makes it more potent"? Also I am puzzled by your reference to Aspartame. Are you suggesting that sweetner is a medicine? Maybe it is a homeopathic one but someone screwed up the doseage? Do Boots stock it? If they dont I cant really see the relevence to this topic.

If homeopathic vetinary treatments are so good you won't mind citing your sources, and i mean properly done trials and not the first 10 sites you google for. Also the vetinary treatments were they vaccines or are they specified illnesses?

You might notice that I feel very strongly about this matter, and only for a small issue with getting back from Havenport I would have been protesting beside Alice, and then it would have been a group.

Why do you consider being gay needs a cure? I am perplexed.
I used Aspartame as an example, because it is one of the poisons legally in our food chain. You will find it in many food products that are probably on Boots shelves, I have not checked.
My point was Aspartame is a much greater danger to us. So why dont you all call for products containing this poison, to be removed from poor old Boots shelves. Instead of the removal of harmless Homeopathic remedies. I think it is a bit like in the old days, going around shouting "Witch" at innocent ladies. Your orginisation smacks of "Common Purpose"please look it up. Merseyside Skeptic society are suckering you all in. I myself, am a great Skeptic, so much so, as to ask why this onslaught on Homeopathy is happening. Do you know why the web site 1023.org has chosen the number 1023 as its name.
Be careful you are all being recruited into something that is very dark indeed and has nothing to do with Homeopathy. Think Common Purpose, the Committee of 300 (The Hidden Hand)

@kingofmumu
I was just mentioning a string of conditions that certain homeopaths are claiming they can cure (homosecuality: http://www.facebook.
com/pages/Global/Hom
eopathy-World-Commun
ity/249177398743 homosexuality and aids: http://shelleytherep
ublican.com/2010/01/
20/finally-a-100-eff
ective-cure-for-homo
sexuality.aspx ) I can go looking for more if you want. I'll take your point about aspartame but as it is used as a sweetner I think that is a matter for the Food Safety Authority.

As for your "witch" comparison - its funny but slightly misleading - under the rules abck then its hard to prove that someone is a wtich and keep them alive, now homeopathy can prove its innocence/success rate by subjecting itself to the same testing and labratory trials that any apathetic
(think that is the term for conventional medicine) product has to go through.

And the answer to your question I do know full well what 1023 refers to, the number of molecules in the mole of a given substance or if you prefer Avagadros number.

I have little problem with homeopathic remedys as long as they aren't pushed as the same as regular medicines or vaccines until they go through the same rigourous provings as regular medicines.

If you are a sketpic like you say - what items are you finding hard to believe?

Cathal
I am glad you notice, when I am joking.
This protest seems very well orchestrated and for a small group of Liverpudlians, it seems hard to swallow. I am Skepticle of their motives. I am a great believer of herbal alternatives, rather than pharma medicine. I hatethe fact that millions of people are dying needlessly from Cancer, Diabetes etc. I would never tell them to abandon their prescribed drugs. For Homeopathy or any other treatments. I do tell people before they come down with these terrible diseases to keep their immune systems as strong as they can by keeping their bodies PH balanced, away from being acidic, by eating the right diet. I would say to most Cancer suffers to take the 4 herb Essiac to try and strenghthen your weakened immune system, especially if you have gone through surgery and Chemo. I am frustrated by cancer research studies, only looking for new medcines rather than ways of stopping the cause. I really do believe that all serious illnesses, are being used to fill a bottomless cash register, by the big pharmaceuticals. I lost my father and father in law, countless auties, uncles and cousins to Cancer and if I knew then what I knew today, some of them would still have been here today. I agree that people should not be persuaded into Homeopathy, once they are diagnosed with a terminal illness. I can honstly say if I came down with Cancer, I would definately not be going under the knife, or take Chemo. I am not advocating anyone else to do this. I do not take any pharmaceuticals what so ever, I treated my diabetes with Essiac, Gymnema Sylvestre and Kino (dragons Blood) my Asthma with Colloidal Silver, and cured my pharmaceutical controlled blood pressure. just by stopping drinking Caffeine ( drinking warm water instead of tea and coffee)

Hi kingofmumu - Just to point out that herbal medicines and homeopathy are absolutely nothing to do with each other. Herbal medicines do indeed often have very helpful properties - they're how we discovered medicines, after all! Homeopathy is the process of taking one substance that induces a symptom (I say SYMPTOM - nothing to do with a cause of the illness) - and then diluting it until it is no longer present. (Incidentally, since arnica is actually helpful at healing bruising, then it violates its own homeopathic principle!) So the two are quite distinct. And this homeopathy was certainly produced by a massive industry that also markets conventional medicine. I think you and I are on the same side about some things! I want to learn as much as possible, and my little stunt was to encourage others to sit up and learn a little, too.

i have no problem with herbal remedies, they actually have an active ingredient, before modern science and medicine herbs were used and are still as a basis for alot of treatments. As for trying to battle the disease (i admit i know very little about it) rather than the cause - this would seem very hard as there is no single cause for cancer as far as i know. And it is good to see that you treated your diabetes with something natural - my dad has to take alot of tablets to control his :)

In short herbal is ok, homeopath is what i have the issue with :)

Alice Sheppard wrote:
Hi kingofmumu - Just to point out that herbal medicines and homeopathy are absolutely nothing to do with each other. Herbal medicines do indeed often have very helpful properties - they're how we discovered medicines, after all! Homeopathy is the process of taking one substance that induces a symptom (I say SYMPTOM - nothing to do with a cause of the illness) - and then diluting it until it is no longer present. (Incidentally, since arnica is actually helpful at healing bruising, then it violates its own homeopathic principle!) So the two are quite distinct. And this homeopathy was certainly produced by a massive industry that also markets conventional medicine. I think you and I are on the same side about some things! I want to learn as much as possible, and my little stunt was to encourage others to sit up and learn a little, too.

Alice
thank you for pointing out that Homeopathy has nothing to do with Herbalism : )

I am glad we are on the same side on somethings too. If you look at my replies to your friend, about the issues I have with the force, that instigated the protest, in the UK, Australia, Canada and the US. Why are they getting so much media publicity, when many protests fail to come to light, hidden from view by the ordinary media.
I really believe the attack on Homeopathy, is the thin edge of the wedge. Chiropractors are also in their sights. It is not a few Liverpudlians responsible for this. Whoever is the driving force behind them, is successfully controlling the quality of our nutrition, medicines, and inevitably us. "Not yet another conspiracy theory", I am afraid so. Its surprising whats hidden in all these theories that interlink with each other. Our world is becoming a very dangerous place. As a result of all the points above, with the addition of fractional banking, but mainly greed. : (

When are you going to read my point that your bugbear "big pharma" actually is a producer of homeopathy too? It is a corrupt, multimillion pound industry just the same as the drugs you so object to. The producer of the arnica I swallowed produces many other conventional pills. Conspiracy theories and nonsense about witchcraft are a way of avoiding discussing the science, because it's so much easier to froth at the mouth than to bother to learn anything.

If you don't like journalists giving us our say, write to them and complain!

The British Chiropractic Association are the guilty party when it comes to attempts to silence people - Simon Singh dared to point out that they make unjustified claims, so they wish to destroy him financially and never allow the issue to be debated in public. Um, that's kind of the opposite of what people actually interested in science are doing. Perhaps it's you quacks who are in somebody's pay, because I sure haven't been in contact with any interested industries. (Obviously it's just as unlikely - but this is what happens when our side starts hurling accusations instead of thinking, too.)

kingofmumu wrote:

Zeno001 wrote:
There is a good article on Why Bogus Therapies Seem to Work: http://www.csicop.or


g/SI/show/why_bogus_


therapies_seem_to_wo


rk/

These reasons apply to humans as well as other animals.

There is a good reason why drug companies knock Herbal/complimentary medicines,
it is protecting their billion dollar profits.
Pharmaceuticals along with the Petrochemical and the Cotton industry discredited and lobbied for the ban on Industrial Hemp. This was a crime against humanity, how can anyone allow these companies to provide so called safe medicines, when they are only interested in profits out of needless suffering. If you do not know about Industrial Hemp see site below. What Do you think about Colloidal Silver an anti bacterial and anti viral, for a solution for HIV/AIDS and Essiac a 4 herb complimentary Cancer therapy. I have successfully used both.

http://www.hempfarm.

org/Papers/Hemp_Fact

s.html

What have the profits or failings of Big Pharma or issues with hemp, etcto do with the lack of evidence for homeopathy (which is what the article was all about)?

Can you provide scientific evidence for the claims you make about cancer? It would be illegal under the 1939 Cancer Act for someone to make claims about curing cancer unless they have already shown that they can.

To argue that it should be taken off the shelf is a bit much really.
If these people are truly concerned about homeopathy and its effectiveness, wouldn't it be a little less Orwellian in approach if they were to just promote their web page. That way you would be able to share your views to others without the danger of taking anyone's options away. Freedom of choice is incredibly important and it needs to remain that way in all areas of our lives, especially where health care is concerned.

Zeno001 wrote:

kingofmumu wrote:

Zeno001 wrote:
There is a good article on Why Bogus Therapies Seem to Work: http://www.csicop.or



g/SI/show/why_bogus_



therapies_seem_to_wo



rk/

These reasons apply to humans as well as other animals.

There is a good reason why drug companies knock Herbal/complimentary medicines,
it is protecting their billion dollar profits.
Pharmaceuticals along with the Petrochemical and the Cotton industry discredited and lobbied for the ban on Industrial Hemp. This was a crime against humanity, how can anyone allow these companies to provide so called safe medicines, when they are only interested in profits out of needless suffering. If you do not know about Industrial Hemp see site below. What Do you think about Colloidal Silver an anti bacterial and anti viral, for a solution for HIV/AIDS and Essiac a 4 herb complimentary Cancer therapy. I have successfully used both.

http://www.hempfarm.


org/Papers/Hemp_Fact


s.html

What have the profits or failings of Big Pharma or issues with hemp, etcto do with the lack of evidence for homeopathy (which is what the article was all about)?

Can you provide scientific evidence for the claims you make about cancer? It would be illegal under the 1939 Cancer Act for someone to make claims about curing cancer unless they have already shown that they can.

I think, I must be writing in some obscure language. Where have I made a claim about curing Cancer. I said I have used complimentary Cancer therapies(immune strengtheners) successfully.
What scientific evidence have you, that Homeopathic remedies, dont work. Oh, the Hemp ban was brought about by individuals like yourself, doing the dirty work for industrialists, history repeating itself, this time Homeopathy is the target, then Chiropractors and so on, until we are only left with a world completely controlled by a facist state. No choice on medical care, work till you drop, debt slaves, we will be the ultimate commodity,
that are rear ended at every opportunity. I think some clever people have already written a few books on these subjects. Let us bring the prescribed drugs failings into the spotlight, you know the ones that are scientifically and clinically proven to be safe, yet still cause the deaths of millions world wide. and get them debated in the commons.
You and your misinformed group,
are inadvertently working for the "Man"

Diversity can avoid our toxic promised future. Stop your dangerous nonsense now!

Alice Sheppard wrote:
When are you going to read my point that your bugbear "big pharma" actually is a producer of homeopathy too? It is a corrupt, multimillion pound industry just the same as the drugs you so object to. The producer of the arnica I swallowed produces many other conventional pills. Conspiracy theories and nonsense about witchcraft are a way of avoiding discussing the science, because it's so much easier to froth at the mouth than to bother to learn anything.

If you don't like journalists giving us our say, write to them and complain!

The British Chiropractic Association are the guilty party when it comes to attempts to silence people - Simon Singh dared to point out that they make unjustified claims, so they wish to destroy him financially and never allow the issue to be debated in public. Um, that's kind of the opposite of what people actually interested in science are doing. Perhaps it's you quacks who are in somebody's pay, because I sure haven't been in contact with any interested industries. (Obviously it's just as unlikely - but this is what happens when our side starts hurling accusations instead of thinking, too.)

Hi Alice
Can you please enlighten us all, to who manufactures the Homeopathic remedies, I must confess, I believed they were manufactured outside the big pharmaceutical giants. I know some pharmaceutical companies manufactured them as a side line, at quiet periods. By the way, I have worked for many large pharmaceuticals over the years.

I would like to have seen you demonstrating, please let us know if you will be doing it again. I would like to evaluate the results from it. In recent press reports, one comment was that the money wasted on Homeopathy, by the NHS would be far better used in the production of more drugs, used for the treatment of "Breast Cancer"
Which as you probably know, is another billion dollar butcher and burn,then poison, industry.
While I am on the subject, have you looked into the damage, allegedly caused by Mammagrams. :(

We all deserve more!

kingofmumu

You said:

"...and Essiac a 4 herb complimentary Cancer therapy. I have successfully used both. "

That looks to me like a claim that you have treated cancer.

You ask about the scientific evidence that homeopathy doesn't work. I'll leave it to you to look up the papers in Cochrane or Bandolier or other reputable source of independent reviews. They are all easily available and understandable to the general public.

The rest of your comment is irrelevant to the subject of the lack of evidence for the efficacy of homeopathy.

Zeno001 wrote:
kingofmumu

You said:

"...and Essiac a 4 herb complimentary Cancer therapy. I have successfully used both. "

That looks to me like a claim that you have treated cancer.

You ask about the scientific evidence that homeopathy doesn't work. I'll leave it to you to look up the papers in Cochrane or Bandolier or other reputable source of independent reviews. They are all easily available and understandable to the general public.

The rest of your comment is irrelevant to the subject of the lack of evidence for the efficacy of homeopathy.

The word "therapy" comes from the Greek "therapeia" meaning "a service, an attendance" which, in turn, is related to the Greek verb "therapeuo" meaning "I wait upon." Therapy was (and is) a service done to the sick.

Yes I have used Essiac successfully it is a useful immune booster. With a strong immune system, our bodies can fight all kinds of infections and diseases. Including Cancer, Diabetes, Athritis, Multiple sclerosis the list is to long to enter here. Look it up

I disagree the rest of my comment is irrelevent, It brings the bigger picture into play. Because of the suppression of alternative therapies, I leave truthful useful information on all kinds of forums and discussion boards, purely to inform anyone that has been restricted, from this useful information. If only one person is helped. my effort has been worthwhile.

Freedom of choice is very important-express your opinion all you want- but don't try to take peoples options away (via having it taken off of the shelves in boots etc)
Regardless of whether something has scientific research to back it or not, people have the right to choose for themselves-to suggest that they should not is a very dangerous idea indeed.