Pembrokeshire County Council Cabinet again backs controversial charges for day care centres

Western Telegraph: Pembrokeshire County Council Cabinet again backs controversial charges for day care centres Pembrokeshire County Council Cabinet again backs controversial charges for day care centres

THE county council is to plough ahead with controversial plans to introduce charges for its day care services despite concerns raised by its own scrutiny committee.

The Older Persons, Health and Wellbeing Overview and Scrutiny Committee considered increases in non-residential social services care charges in March.

The committee accepted a number of proposals but rejected the introduction of a £23.70 charge for day care services.

The following month cabinet referred that decision back to scrutiny for an “explanation” as to why people who can afford to pay should not make a financial contribution for the service provided.

The scrutiny committee then recommended introducing a daily charge of £10, instead of the proposed £23.70, as of September 1.

A report by the deputy chief executive, put before cabinet on Monday (July 7), stated that the £10 charge “is not based on any financial assessment of the cost of service provision” and would generate about £100,000 less income than the £23.70 charge.

Cabinet member for adult services Councillor Simon Hancock said the original proposal was based on the cost of providing the service and that charges would be means tested.

He said members of the scrutiny committee had agreed with charging in principle but did not agree with introducing the £23.70 charge immediately.

The £10 charge did not reflect the costs involved, Cllr Hancock said, adding that it was “a figure plucked out of the air as far as I can tell”.

He proposed introducing a daily charge of £16.50 from September 1, rising to £23.70 as of April 1.

Cabinet members voted unanimously in favour of the proposal.

Deputy leader Cllr Rob Lewis said: “We do find ourselves in very difficult times. I think it’s important to highlight that, through means testing, only those who have the capacity and the ability to pay would have to so.”

The council needs to make £20m savings over the next three years.

Comments (35)

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3:31pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Tttoommy says...

I REALLY hope these greedy stupid councillors will soon be using these services which have been cut back - that will be Karma
I REALLY hope these greedy stupid councillors will soon be using these services which have been cut back - that will be Karma Tttoommy
  • Score: 3

3:56pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Bilbo101 says...

Even though this is going means tested it is inevitable that it is going to result in less people using the day care services which could and probably will put the whole service under threat of closure. A lot of elderly people who use these services get very confused and frightened by the bureaucracy and paper work involved in applying for benefits and many end up not getting the benefits they are entitled to. It always seems that the most vulnerable are the first to suffer.

I realise that the council has to find £20 million of savings over the next 3 years but I find it very annoying and insulting that our councillors approve pay raises for themselves and the great almighty ( BPJ ) whilst regrading ( reducing pay ) of many Council employees and making many redundant.

If our councillors had any real scruples and sense of responsibility the one of the first cuts they should make is to significantly reduce the pay staggeringly excessive pay of the chief executive. Why is it exactly that he is the highest paid chief executive in Wales when he is responsible for one of the smallest councils ? Cardiff council is 3 times the size of Pembrokeshire yet their Chief executive is paid less. Another sickening insult is that they countinue to approve the rediculously generous and unnecessary car allowance for the chief exec, which currently stands at around £20,500 per year ? It is obvious that this is not needed because the brand new £89,000 Porsche that the chief exec has recently acquired is not even being used as a council car by the Chief Exec but instead, if reports are true, is being driven around by his young son and is frequently seen in the Valero refinery car park where apparently Bryn's son works. To top it all off our council is even paying for the family car insurance policy. This in my mind is abuse of power and is a blatant insult to the people of Pembrokeshire. I really don't know how our councillors can look themselves in the mirror each morning. The people of Pembrokeshire need to get together and get rid of every single IPPG Councillor because one thing is for sure and that is that they are all looking after their own interests and most certainly not looking after the people of Pembrokeshire, especially the old and the vulnerable. It seems to me that none of them care and they are going to continue to milk the system for the old boys club for as long as we let them get away with it.
Even though this is going means tested it is inevitable that it is going to result in less people using the day care services which could and probably will put the whole service under threat of closure. A lot of elderly people who use these services get very confused and frightened by the bureaucracy and paper work involved in applying for benefits and many end up not getting the benefits they are entitled to. It always seems that the most vulnerable are the first to suffer. I realise that the council has to find £20 million of savings over the next 3 years but I find it very annoying and insulting that our councillors approve pay raises for themselves and the great almighty ( BPJ ) whilst regrading ( reducing pay ) of many Council employees and making many redundant. If our councillors had any real scruples and sense of responsibility the one of the first cuts they should make is to significantly reduce the pay staggeringly excessive pay of the chief executive. Why is it exactly that he is the highest paid chief executive in Wales when he is responsible for one of the smallest councils ? Cardiff council is 3 times the size of Pembrokeshire yet their Chief executive is paid less. Another sickening insult is that they countinue to approve the rediculously generous and unnecessary car allowance for the chief exec, which currently stands at around £20,500 per year ? It is obvious that this is not needed because the brand new £89,000 Porsche that the chief exec has recently acquired is not even being used as a council car by the Chief Exec but instead, if reports are true, is being driven around by his young son and is frequently seen in the Valero refinery car park where apparently Bryn's son works. To top it all off our council is even paying for the family car insurance policy. This in my mind is abuse of power and is a blatant insult to the people of Pembrokeshire. I really don't know how our councillors can look themselves in the mirror each morning. The people of Pembrokeshire need to get together and get rid of every single IPPG Councillor because one thing is for sure and that is that they are all looking after their own interests and most certainly not looking after the people of Pembrokeshire, especially the old and the vulnerable. It seems to me that none of them care and they are going to continue to milk the system for the old boys club for as long as we let them get away with it. Bilbo101
  • Score: 15

5:41pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Gogledd says...

They are due to start work soon on upscaling a road to the tune of £4 million. It is questionable if this money is being well spent. So, what on earth are they doing now, they should stop wasting money on stupid schemes that are doomed to fail and manage the counties finances properly not squander our council tax...they bought a pub in Fishguard to make way for the new supermarket...that has been stopped because of some covenant somewhere...250K or thereabouts...the grant schemes and all the other money they thow away like confetti...this is a disgrace...not everyone can afford to pay.....and people will end up not using the services...but maybe thats the plan...then they can close them all down.
They are due to start work soon on upscaling a road to the tune of £4 million. It is questionable if this money is being well spent. So, what on earth are they doing now, they should stop wasting money on stupid schemes that are doomed to fail and manage the counties finances properly not squander our council tax...they bought a pub in Fishguard to make way for the new supermarket...that has been stopped because of some covenant somewhere...250K or thereabouts...the grant schemes and all the other money they thow away like confetti...this is a disgrace...not everyone can afford to pay.....and people will end up not using the services...but maybe thats the plan...then they can close them all down. Gogledd
  • Score: 5

6:34pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Welshman23 says...

Deputy leader Cllr Rob Lewis said: “We do find ourselves in very difficult times. I think it’s important to highlight that, through means testing, only those who have the capacity and the ability to pay would have to so.”
HOW CAN YOU TAKE THIS PERSONS COMMENTS SERIOUSLY HE WAS RECENTLY SUSPENDED FOR 2 WEEKS?
Start the cuts at the top and listen to what your electorate are saying. You are supposed to represent the voters in all your cases you do not care a ****.
Deputy leader Cllr Rob Lewis said: “We do find ourselves in very difficult times. I think it’s important to highlight that, through means testing, only those who have the capacity and the ability to pay would have to so.” HOW CAN YOU TAKE THIS PERSONS COMMENTS SERIOUSLY HE WAS RECENTLY SUSPENDED FOR 2 WEEKS? Start the cuts at the top and listen to what your electorate are saying. You are supposed to represent the voters in all your cases you do not care a ****. Welshman23
  • Score: 7

6:47pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Gogledd says...

Welshman23 wrote:
Deputy leader Cllr Rob Lewis said: “We do find ourselves in very difficult times. I think it’s important to highlight that, through means testing, only those who have the capacity and the ability to pay would have to so.”
HOW CAN YOU TAKE THIS PERSONS COMMENTS SERIOUSLY HE WAS RECENTLY SUSPENDED FOR 2 WEEKS?
Start the cuts at the top and listen to what your electorate are saying. You are supposed to represent the voters in all your cases you do not care a ****.
Precisely, but I am beginning to believe that we are wasting our breath...
[quote][p][bold]Welshman23[/bold] wrote: Deputy leader Cllr Rob Lewis said: “We do find ourselves in very difficult times. I think it’s important to highlight that, through means testing, only those who have the capacity and the ability to pay would have to so.” HOW CAN YOU TAKE THIS PERSONS COMMENTS SERIOUSLY HE WAS RECENTLY SUSPENDED FOR 2 WEEKS? Start the cuts at the top and listen to what your electorate are saying. You are supposed to represent the voters in all your cases you do not care a ****.[/p][/quote]Precisely, but I am beginning to believe that we are wasting our breath... Gogledd
  • Score: 4

7:17pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Welshman23 says...

Welshman23 wrote:
Deputy leader Cllr Rob Lewis said: “We do find ourselves in very difficult times. I think it’s important to highlight that, through means testing, only those who have the capacity and the ability to pay would have to so.”
HOW CAN YOU TAKE THIS PERSONS COMMENTS SERIOUSLY HE WAS RECENTLY SUSPENDED FOR 2 WEEKS?
Start the cuts at the top and listen to what your electorate are saying. You are supposed to represent the voters in all your cases you do not care a ****.
Who ever has voted this down have the balls to express your views put up or shut up Bongo
[quote][p][bold]Welshman23[/bold] wrote: Deputy leader Cllr Rob Lewis said: “We do find ourselves in very difficult times. I think it’s important to highlight that, through means testing, only those who have the capacity and the ability to pay would have to so.” HOW CAN YOU TAKE THIS PERSONS COMMENTS SERIOUSLY HE WAS RECENTLY SUSPENDED FOR 2 WEEKS? Start the cuts at the top and listen to what your electorate are saying. You are supposed to represent the voters in all your cases you do not care a ****.[/p][/quote]Who ever has voted this down have the balls to express your views put up or shut up Bongo Welshman23
  • Score: 5

10:45pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Tttoommy says...

Gogledd wrote:
They are due to start work soon on upscaling a road to the tune of £4 million. It is questionable if this money is being well spent. So, what on earth are they doing now, they should stop wasting money on stupid schemes that are doomed to fail and manage the counties finances properly not squander our council tax...they bought a pub in Fishguard to make way for the new supermarket...that has been stopped because of some covenant somewhere...250K or thereabouts...the grant schemes and all the other money they thow away like confetti...this is a disgrace...not everyone can afford to pay.....and people will end up not using the services...but maybe thats the plan...then they can close them all down.
As a retired project manager I REALLY cannot believe how much unecessary work is done (at vast cost) when any roadworks are done in Pembrokeshire, never mind , I'm sure the contractors are very happy - nudge,nudge,wink,win
k ;-)
[quote][p][bold]Gogledd[/bold] wrote: They are due to start work soon on upscaling a road to the tune of £4 million. It is questionable if this money is being well spent. So, what on earth are they doing now, they should stop wasting money on stupid schemes that are doomed to fail and manage the counties finances properly not squander our council tax...they bought a pub in Fishguard to make way for the new supermarket...that has been stopped because of some covenant somewhere...250K or thereabouts...the grant schemes and all the other money they thow away like confetti...this is a disgrace...not everyone can afford to pay.....and people will end up not using the services...but maybe thats the plan...then they can close them all down.[/p][/quote]As a retired project manager I REALLY cannot believe how much unecessary work is done (at vast cost) when any roadworks are done in Pembrokeshire, never mind , I'm sure the contractors are very happy - nudge,nudge,wink,win k ;-) Tttoommy
  • Score: 3

10:56pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Tttoommy says...

PS Not just the A4075 Mylrtts Hill road into Pembroke from the a477 BUT also the A477 junction/turn offonto the A4075 road, I've seen the M27 on the South Coast created from NOTHING probably for less money with less earthworks than these two TINY improvements - b ut then I'm sure the council ppl know what they're doing -- I would say LOl except I'm paying my rates to PCC
PS Not just the A4075 Mylrtts Hill road into Pembroke from the a477 BUT also the A477 junction/turn offonto the A4075 road, I've seen the M27 on the South Coast created from NOTHING probably for less money with less earthworks than these two TINY improvements - b ut then I'm sure the council ppl know what they're doing -- I would say LOl except I'm paying my rates to PCC Tttoommy
  • Score: 1

11:03pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Tttoommy says...

Welshman23 wrote:
Welshman23 wrote:
Deputy leader Cllr Rob Lewis said: “We do find ourselves in very difficult times. I think it’s important to highlight that, through means testing, only those who have the capacity and the ability to pay would have to so.”
HOW CAN YOU TAKE THIS PERSONS COMMENTS SERIOUSLY HE WAS RECENTLY SUSPENDED FOR 2 WEEKS?
Start the cuts at the top and listen to what your electorate are saying. You are supposed to represent the voters in all your cases you do not care a ****.
Who ever has voted this down have the balls to express your views put up or shut up Bongo
You don't think Bryn bothers, jamie and the other jelly fish cannot string a few words together except - WEHERESs MY special responsibility MONEY - all other comments come from the Goebels "press office"

I'd advise the IPG folks to stop spending their money, they'll not get it after the next election so best try and live without it now :)
[quote][p][bold]Welshman23[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Welshman23[/bold] wrote: Deputy leader Cllr Rob Lewis said: “We do find ourselves in very difficult times. I think it’s important to highlight that, through means testing, only those who have the capacity and the ability to pay would have to so.” HOW CAN YOU TAKE THIS PERSONS COMMENTS SERIOUSLY HE WAS RECENTLY SUSPENDED FOR 2 WEEKS? Start the cuts at the top and listen to what your electorate are saying. You are supposed to represent the voters in all your cases you do not care a ****.[/p][/quote]Who ever has voted this down have the balls to express your views put up or shut up Bongo[/p][/quote]You don't think Bryn bothers, jamie and the other jelly fish cannot string a few words together except - WEHERESs MY special responsibility MONEY - all other comments come from the Goebels "press office" I'd advise the IPG folks to stop spending their money, they'll not get it after the next election so best try and live without it now :) Tttoommy
  • Score: 0

9:06am Wed 9 Jul 14

SM1968 says...

It's no surprise is it folks really, PCC milking the electorate again. They dont give two hoots about anyone in the County except themselves. I am staggered when Jamie " I am more important than David Cameron and my mate drives a porsche" Adams has no issue with creating two new cabinet posts for his clique stating the posts will give the portifolios "the attention they deserve" but is clearly way above giving the elders of the County "the attention they deserve", oh no, the money is for me and my mates, the peasants can pay for their own food. They make me sick, I fully suspect come rememberance day the County Hall good and great will have another lovely buffet after proceedings at the memorial at the expense of the elctorate, when blokes like me and others who stuck my neck on the line in the Forces for scum like that dont get a sniff. Angry isnt even the words I have for these people.
It's no surprise is it folks really, PCC milking the electorate again. They dont give two hoots about anyone in the County except themselves. I am staggered when Jamie " I am more important than David Cameron and my mate drives a porsche" Adams has no issue with creating two new cabinet posts for his clique stating the posts will give the portifolios "the attention they deserve" but is clearly way above giving the elders of the County "the attention they deserve", oh no, the money is for me and my mates, the peasants can pay for their own food. They make me sick, I fully suspect come rememberance day the County Hall good and great will have another lovely buffet after proceedings at the memorial at the expense of the elctorate, when blokes like me and others who stuck my neck on the line in the Forces for scum like that dont get a sniff. Angry isnt even the words I have for these people. SM1968
  • Score: 4

11:19am Wed 9 Jul 14

Theodore1 says...

As usual hit the old! They do not answer back, Elder people count their pennies to heat their homes and put food on the table, Better not to use the pathetic services on offer, than starve and freeze,
As usual hit the old! They do not answer back, Elder people count their pennies to heat their homes and put food on the table, Better not to use the pathetic services on offer, than starve and freeze, Theodore1
  • Score: 3

1:11pm Wed 9 Jul 14

Bilbo101 says...

Theodore1 wrote:
As usual hit the old! They do not answer back, Elder people count their pennies to heat their homes and put food on the table, Better not to use the pathetic services on offer, than starve and freeze,
Your absolutely right. In addition, loneliness in the old is a terrible thing, there is nothing worse than being house bound and feeling isolated. Paying the bills and food costs are difficult to manage and sacrifices must be made and now one of the few services that offer an escape of the daily battle for existence is going to incur a daily fee of £23.70. For many this will be completely unrealistic and unaffordable at a time when many are already having to choose between heating and food. This truly shows how out of touch our councillors are with the needs of the community.

There reduced fee of £10 was dismissed because it would generate about £100,000 less income. However over the last 12 months our council will have spent far more than that figure on unnecessary perks for the o-great-one ( Bryn Parry-Jones ), high legal and barrister fees to defend his indefensible actions and more high fees on expensive external consultants to help qualify the councils dodgy proposals. Why they needed an external consultants firm to propose the chief execs pay I never know, why could they just not work this out themselves, no this was too tough they needed somebody with "expertise" in that field ( as if any was needed ). Anyway, after all that the so called expert consultants recommended a salary and benefits that makes him the highest paid chief exec in Wales despite running one of the smallest councils and I may say, running it particularly badly! This is all wrong. The council could have easily afford to introduce the far lower charge of £10 or even continue to offer the service for free if only our Councillors and the Chief Exec shown some character and stop squandering our council tax money on themselves. Why are we funding an £89,000 Porsche for Bryn Parry-Jones and also picking up the tab for the hugely expensive family insurance policy when it does not even benefit the county in any way as Bryn has not been using it for Council Duties and has apparently loaned it to his young son ? Well I tell you why we are doing this and that is because the so called expert consultants recommended it and and our councillors approved it. It is nothing more than legalised theft in my opinion.

This situation has to change, we cannot continue to allow these people to mismanage our county any longer and run down all our services. It is OK for them, they will all retire soon with golden handshakes and a healthy bank balance after all the raises, travelling expenses and other perks they have given themselves over the years, they will be OK but we will be far worse off. Call this a democracy, it is a flipping joke. We need some new blood in the council, some people with ethics and honesty who want to make Pembrokeshire better for everyone and not just the old boys club in the Kremlin on the Cleddau.
[quote][p][bold]Theodore1[/bold] wrote: As usual hit the old! They do not answer back, Elder people count their pennies to heat their homes and put food on the table, Better not to use the pathetic services on offer, than starve and freeze,[/p][/quote]Your absolutely right. In addition, loneliness in the old is a terrible thing, there is nothing worse than being house bound and feeling isolated. Paying the bills and food costs are difficult to manage and sacrifices must be made and now one of the few services that offer an escape of the daily battle for existence is going to incur a daily fee of £23.70. For many this will be completely unrealistic and unaffordable at a time when many are already having to choose between heating and food. This truly shows how out of touch our councillors are with the needs of the community. There reduced fee of £10 was dismissed because it would generate about £100,000 less income. However over the last 12 months our council will have spent far more than that figure on unnecessary perks for the o-great-one ( Bryn Parry-Jones ), high legal and barrister fees to defend his indefensible actions and more high fees on expensive external consultants to help qualify the councils dodgy proposals. Why they needed an external consultants firm to propose the chief execs pay I never know, why could they just not work this out themselves, no this was too tough they needed somebody with "expertise" in that field ( as if any was needed ). Anyway, after all that the so called expert consultants recommended a salary and benefits that makes him the highest paid chief exec in Wales despite running one of the smallest councils and I may say, running it particularly badly! This is all wrong. The council could have easily afford to introduce the far lower charge of £10 or even continue to offer the service for free if only our Councillors and the Chief Exec shown some character and stop squandering our council tax money on themselves. Why are we funding an £89,000 Porsche for Bryn Parry-Jones and also picking up the tab for the hugely expensive family insurance policy when it does not even benefit the county in any way as Bryn has not been using it for Council Duties and has apparently loaned it to his young son ? Well I tell you why we are doing this and that is because the so called expert consultants recommended it and and our councillors approved it. It is nothing more than legalised theft in my opinion. This situation has to change, we cannot continue to allow these people to mismanage our county any longer and run down all our services. It is OK for them, they will all retire soon with golden handshakes and a healthy bank balance after all the raises, travelling expenses and other perks they have given themselves over the years, they will be OK but we will be far worse off. Call this a democracy, it is a flipping joke. We need some new blood in the council, some people with ethics and honesty who want to make Pembrokeshire better for everyone and not just the old boys club in the Kremlin on the Cleddau. Bilbo101
  • Score: 8

2:22pm Wed 9 Jul 14

Indeview J Hudson says...

The Welsh Government's preference is for PCC and Ceredigion to merge.
The Welsh Government's preference is for PCC and Ceredigion to merge. Indeview J Hudson
  • Score: 0

2:33pm Wed 9 Jul 14

Bilbo101 says...

Indeview J Hudson wrote:
The Welsh Government's preference is for PCC and Ceredigion to merge.
Maybe that is not such a bad thing just as long as the brand and county of Pembrokeshire remains. We have a lot of things in common with Ceredigion and I think joint efforts in areas such as tourism could prove to be a very good thing. There would also be savings as we would not need 2 chief execs. Maybe we can finally get rid of Bryn and maybe the current chief exec of Ceredigion is better and has more scruples ? I don't know but if he or she does then maybe they could be the new chief exec of the super council.

But whatever happens we need to preserve the brand of Pembrokeshire. A Lot of people fought for many years to change it so that we were know as Pembrokeshire and it would be a crying shame if some welsh assembly turkey decided to merge the counties and give them a new singular name. Personally I would not mind if it was known as "Ceredigion & Pembrokeshire County Council" or vice-versa, a bit of a mouthful but at least it preserves the distinct identities that have been established and grown over many years.
[quote][p][bold]Indeview J Hudson[/bold] wrote: The Welsh Government's preference is for PCC and Ceredigion to merge.[/p][/quote]Maybe that is not such a bad thing just as long as the brand and county of Pembrokeshire remains. We have a lot of things in common with Ceredigion and I think joint efforts in areas such as tourism could prove to be a very good thing. There would also be savings as we would not need 2 chief execs. Maybe we can finally get rid of Bryn and maybe the current chief exec of Ceredigion is better and has more scruples ? I don't know but if he or she does then maybe they could be the new chief exec of the super council. But whatever happens we need to preserve the brand of Pembrokeshire. A Lot of people fought for many years to change it so that we were know as Pembrokeshire and it would be a crying shame if some welsh assembly turkey decided to merge the counties and give them a new singular name. Personally I would not mind if it was known as "Ceredigion & Pembrokeshire County Council" or vice-versa, a bit of a mouthful but at least it preserves the distinct identities that have been established and grown over many years. Bilbo101
  • Score: 0

2:43pm Wed 9 Jul 14

SM1968 says...

A public vote of no confidence in PCC?
A public vote of no confidence in PCC? SM1968
  • Score: 5

3:30pm Wed 9 Jul 14

KeanJo says...

The Chief Executive of Ceridigion earns far less than BPJ, the County's Education has been praised by Estyn and as far as I am aware the services have not been subject to special measures. It would seem a good deal for Pembs but I 'm not sure Ceridigion people would be very pleased. Increasing the cost of using day centres to unaffordable levels for the elderly is contemptible but unfortunately par for the course for this lot. If they need cash why don't they sell Bluestone their 3% shareholding for the £1.75 million they paid for them?
The Chief Executive of Ceridigion earns far less than BPJ, the County's Education has been praised by Estyn and as far as I am aware the services have not been subject to special measures. It would seem a good deal for Pembs but I 'm not sure Ceridigion people would be very pleased. Increasing the cost of using day centres to unaffordable levels for the elderly is contemptible but unfortunately par for the course for this lot. If they need cash why don't they sell Bluestone their 3% shareholding for the £1.75 million they paid for them? KeanJo
  • Score: 5

7:32am Thu 10 Jul 14

Indeview J Hudson says...

The Ceredigion Web-site includes a comprehensive list of its fees and tariffs for 2014/5. ( 60 Pages) What a marked improvement for "customers".

Home and Community support service charges in PCC are £14.60p per hour for directly delivered services and £10.00 for direct payment.

The equivalent in Ceredigion is £13.20 , but there is a separate charge for Laundry at £3.85 per wash.

Meals in Ceredigion cost £5 but £4.34 with PCC. However, Ceredigion will also provide a supper meal at £2.15p.

When we are discharged from the same hospital, if there are any left, we may need care and support by our respective Council's with different charging schemes.
Both Councils only assist those with assessed critical and substantial need. and do not provide services for those with low and moderate needs.

I think that this reorganisation, with as yet no apparent clear ground rules, is likely to end in disaster. One thing is clear, what we think will not matter and we are not likely to be given any say in the process or idea what the outcome will be.
The Ceredigion Web-site includes a comprehensive list of its fees and tariffs for 2014/5. ( 60 Pages) What a marked improvement for "customers". Home and Community support service charges in PCC are £14.60p per hour for directly delivered services and £10.00 for direct payment. The equivalent in Ceredigion is £13.20 , but there is a separate charge for Laundry at £3.85 per wash. Meals in Ceredigion cost £5 but £4.34 with PCC. However, Ceredigion will also provide a supper meal at £2.15p. When we are discharged from the same hospital, if there are any left, we may need care and support by our respective Council's with different charging schemes. Both Councils only assist those with assessed critical and substantial need. and do not provide services for those with low and moderate needs. I think that this reorganisation, with as yet no apparent clear ground rules, is likely to end in disaster. One thing is clear, what we think will not matter and we are not likely to be given any say in the process or idea what the outcome will be. Indeview J Hudson
  • Score: 2

8:57am Fri 11 Jul 14

malcolm calver says...

It amazes me that Cllr Hancock has the time to consider this matter.

I have just checked his register of interests listed on the Pembrokeshire County Council website and I can understand him ditching the Labour Party with the money he receives from all the appointments, the sun must never set in Neyland.
It now looks like anybody who has saved to provide for their old age is to be penalized whilst those that have squandered there income will receive free provision of services.
It amazes me that Cllr Hancock has the time to consider this matter. I have just checked his register of interests listed on the Pembrokeshire County Council website and I can understand him ditching the Labour Party with the money he receives from all the appointments, the sun must never set in Neyland. It now looks like anybody who has saved to provide for their old age is to be penalized whilst those that have squandered there income will receive free provision of services. malcolm calver
  • Score: 5

9:00am Fri 11 Jul 14

Tttoommy says...

Indeview J Hudson wrote:
The Ceredigion Web-site includes a comprehensive list of its fees and tariffs for 2014/5. ( 60 Pages) What a marked improvement for "customers".

Home and Community support service charges in PCC are £14.60p per hour for directly delivered services and £10.00 for direct payment.

The equivalent in Ceredigion is £13.20 , but there is a separate charge for Laundry at £3.85 per wash.

Meals in Ceredigion cost £5 but £4.34 with PCC. However, Ceredigion will also provide a supper meal at £2.15p.

When we are discharged from the same hospital, if there are any left, we may need care and support by our respective Council's with different charging schemes.
Both Councils only assist those with assessed critical and substantial need. and do not provide services for those with low and moderate needs.

I think that this reorganisation, with as yet no apparent clear ground rules, is likely to end in disaster. One thing is clear, what we think will not matter and we are not likely to be given any say in the process or idea what the outcome will be.
So long as the powers that B use the Ceredigion model rather than the joke that is PCC we'll be OK.

We don't want selfish,stupid greedy councillors who will vote that black is white so long as they get their money - never mentioned the IPG there did I?
[quote][p][bold]Indeview J Hudson[/bold] wrote: The Ceredigion Web-site includes a comprehensive list of its fees and tariffs for 2014/5. ( 60 Pages) What a marked improvement for "customers". Home and Community support service charges in PCC are £14.60p per hour for directly delivered services and £10.00 for direct payment. The equivalent in Ceredigion is £13.20 , but there is a separate charge for Laundry at £3.85 per wash. Meals in Ceredigion cost £5 but £4.34 with PCC. However, Ceredigion will also provide a supper meal at £2.15p. When we are discharged from the same hospital, if there are any left, we may need care and support by our respective Council's with different charging schemes. Both Councils only assist those with assessed critical and substantial need. and do not provide services for those with low and moderate needs. I think that this reorganisation, with as yet no apparent clear ground rules, is likely to end in disaster. One thing is clear, what we think will not matter and we are not likely to be given any say in the process or idea what the outcome will be.[/p][/quote]So long as the powers that B use the Ceredigion model rather than the joke that is PCC we'll be OK. We don't want selfish,stupid greedy councillors who will vote that black is white so long as they get their money - never mentioned the IPG there did I? Tttoommy
  • Score: -2

11:05am Fri 11 Jul 14

Indeview J Hudson says...

Why hasn't the WT reported the preferred PCC/Ceredigion amalgamation yet?

60 Pembrokeshire and 42 Ceredigion councillors will be involved, advised by impartial officers. Why has our Election office been moved from Haverfordwest to Fishguard?

Incidentally the combined population, would under the current authority banding rules, afford councillors larger salaries.

A council with 102 councillors, or reduced number with increased geographical areas, is, I would suggest, unlikely to increase our democracy, which at the moment is almost non-existant.
Why hasn't the WT reported the preferred PCC/Ceredigion amalgamation yet? 60 Pembrokeshire and 42 Ceredigion councillors will be involved, advised by impartial officers. Why has our Election office been moved from Haverfordwest to Fishguard? Incidentally the combined population, would under the current authority banding rules, afford councillors larger salaries. A council with 102 councillors, or reduced number with increased geographical areas, is, I would suggest, unlikely to increase our democracy, which at the moment is almost non-existant. Indeview J Hudson
  • Score: 1

1:10pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Rockface says...

The money they get for selling Sunnybank Residential Home should be put towards funding the much needed day care for older people!
The money they get for selling Sunnybank Residential Home should be put towards funding the much needed day care for older people! Rockface
  • Score: 3

2:12pm Fri 11 Jul 14

malcolm calver says...

Surely money has been saved by the appointment of a new Director of Finance. Please do not tell me that the new incumbent has received a huge salary, if so those the councillors involved in appointment should surely be named and also ashamed of themselves
Surely money has been saved by the appointment of a new Director of Finance. Please do not tell me that the new incumbent has received a huge salary, if so those the councillors involved in appointment should surely be named and also ashamed of themselves malcolm calver
  • Score: 3

2:15pm Fri 11 Jul 14

malcolm calver says...

Surely money has been saved by the appointment of a new Director of Finance. Please do not tell me that the new incumbent has received a huge salary, if so, those councillors involved in the appointment should surely be named and also ashamed of themselves
Surely money has been saved by the appointment of a new Director of Finance. Please do not tell me that the new incumbent has received a huge salary, if so, those councillors involved in the appointment should surely be named and also ashamed of themselves malcolm calver
  • Score: 1

2:22pm Fri 11 Jul 14

KeanJo says...

The appointment of a new Finance Director has been made very quietly. No public announcement, was the post advertised? What is the salary.? Surely the paying public have right to know,or is there a reason for the secrecy?
The appointment of a new Finance Director has been made very quietly. No public announcement, was the post advertised? What is the salary.? Surely the paying public have right to know,or is there a reason for the secrecy? KeanJo
  • Score: 5

3:55pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Indeview J Hudson says...

The new Director of Finance ( Jon Haswell) , responsible directly to the Chief Exexcutive, and the Head of Revenues and Assurance ( Kerry Macdermott ) which now includes responsibility for Internal audit under the Deputy Chief Executive were appointed internally with a reorganisation.
No remuneration details are available as far as I can see.
It was following a meeting with these officers that the Lay member and Chairman of the Audit Committee saw fit to tender his resignation.

Do we want our council's finances run on the cheap at this critical time?
Especially as most of our councillor's financial knowledge appears to be limited and reliant on the acceptance of officer's advice with out question. Mind you who would want to come here with its uncertain future?
The new Director of Finance ( Jon Haswell) , responsible directly to the Chief Exexcutive, and the Head of Revenues and Assurance ( Kerry Macdermott ) which now includes responsibility for Internal audit under the Deputy Chief Executive were appointed internally with a reorganisation. No remuneration details are available as far as I can see. It was following a meeting with these officers that the Lay member and Chairman of the Audit Committee saw fit to tender his resignation. Do we want our council's finances run on the cheap at this critical time? Especially as most of our councillor's financial knowledge appears to be limited and reliant on the acceptance of officer's advice with out question. Mind you who would want to come here with its uncertain future? Indeview J Hudson
  • Score: -3

4:09pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Bilbo101 says...

Indeview J Hudson wrote:
The new Director of Finance ( Jon Haswell) , responsible directly to the Chief Exexcutive, and the Head of Revenues and Assurance ( Kerry Macdermott ) which now includes responsibility for Internal audit under the Deputy Chief Executive were appointed internally with a reorganisation.
No remuneration details are available as far as I can see.
It was following a meeting with these officers that the Lay member and Chairman of the Audit Committee saw fit to tender his resignation.

Do we want our council's finances run on the cheap at this critical time?
Especially as most of our councillor's financial knowledge appears to be limited and reliant on the acceptance of officer's advice with out question. Mind you who would want to come here with its uncertain future?
True enough, good point. I would prefer them to pay a bit more and get somebody capable in to run the show than get somebody and the cheap and get no enthusiasm, commitment or benefit. The pay is not such an issue unless it is another back-door dodgy deal, which I am sure it is not. However Bryn's tactic has always been to employ yes men from Llanelli days, those who bow and don't rock the boat, so just as long as the new guy is not one of them then I would not have a problem if he was paid a bit more if he brought the skills and experience to the table and could deliver benefits.
[quote][p][bold]Indeview J Hudson[/bold] wrote: The new Director of Finance ( Jon Haswell) , responsible directly to the Chief Exexcutive, and the Head of Revenues and Assurance ( Kerry Macdermott ) which now includes responsibility for Internal audit under the Deputy Chief Executive were appointed internally with a reorganisation. No remuneration details are available as far as I can see. It was following a meeting with these officers that the Lay member and Chairman of the Audit Committee saw fit to tender his resignation. Do we want our council's finances run on the cheap at this critical time? Especially as most of our councillor's financial knowledge appears to be limited and reliant on the acceptance of officer's advice with out question. Mind you who would want to come here with its uncertain future?[/p][/quote]True enough, good point. I would prefer them to pay a bit more and get somebody capable in to run the show than get somebody and the cheap and get no enthusiasm, commitment or benefit. The pay is not such an issue unless it is another back-door dodgy deal, which I am sure it is not. However Bryn's tactic has always been to employ yes men from Llanelli days, those who bow and don't rock the boat, so just as long as the new guy is not one of them then I would not have a problem if he was paid a bit more if he brought the skills and experience to the table and could deliver benefits. Bilbo101
  • Score: 0

4:53pm Fri 11 Jul 14

malcolm calver says...

No body is saying that the council finances should be run on the cheap but much of the discussion of late has been on overpaid council officers.
To reduce the cost of staff, anyone newly employed should be employed on a lower salary.
John I am sure this position in the private sector would not command the salary and perks enjoyed by the outgoing director but if it does we cannot keep complaining about council officers salaries.,
No body is saying that the council finances should be run on the cheap but much of the discussion of late has been on overpaid council officers. To reduce the cost of staff, anyone newly employed should be employed on a lower salary. John I am sure this position in the private sector would not command the salary and perks enjoyed by the outgoing director but if it does we cannot keep complaining about council officers salaries., malcolm calver
  • Score: 1

6:34pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Indeview J Hudson says...

In this critical sector one Director has gone and has not been replaced body for body. Is this council so well resourced at this level that it cope minus one? Clearly the Senior Staff Committee must have been convinced, as it was with the Senior Staff Pensions arrangement that has now been rescinded.
Malcolm I do not know what the going rate for a Director of Finance is for an authority with a gross revenue budget of £320m with direct income of £130m. with reserves totalling some £60m.
This post carried the S151 statutory responsibility for ensuring the proper administration of the council's financial affairs. Do you recall councillors expenses and improper use of council resources problems by The Council Leader and a Deputy Leader?
Our council have given this post full delegated authority to allocate and spend earmarked reserves both capital and revenue. Once approved our councillors do not receive any reports about these, apart from the annual accounts, when it is too late to change things.
In this critical sector one Director has gone and has not been replaced body for body. Is this council so well resourced at this level that it cope minus one? Clearly the Senior Staff Committee must have been convinced, as it was with the Senior Staff Pensions arrangement that has now been rescinded. Malcolm I do not know what the going rate for a Director of Finance is for an authority with a gross revenue budget of £320m with direct income of £130m. with reserves totalling some £60m. This post carried the S151 statutory responsibility for ensuring the proper administration of the council's financial affairs. Do you recall councillors expenses and improper use of council resources problems by The Council Leader and a Deputy Leader? Our council have given this post full delegated authority to allocate and spend earmarked reserves both capital and revenue. Once approved our councillors do not receive any reports about these, apart from the annual accounts, when it is too late to change things. Indeview J Hudson
  • Score: 0

10:29pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Tttoommy says...

malcolm calver wrote:
No body is saying that the council finances should be run on the cheap but much of the discussion of late has been on overpaid council officers.
To reduce the cost of staff, anyone newly employed should be employed on a lower salary.
John I am sure this position in the private sector would not command the salary and perks enjoyed by the outgoing director but if it does we cannot keep complaining about council officers salaries.,
You REALLY REALLY cannot compare council salaries with the private sector at the top level - councils are given money - there's no competition for our buck,they're told where they have to spend around 95% of their buidget and quite often instead of being sacked for being useless or corrupt they get an OBE and or a golden goodbye
[quote][p][bold]malcolm calver[/bold] wrote: No body is saying that the council finances should be run on the cheap but much of the discussion of late has been on overpaid council officers. To reduce the cost of staff, anyone newly employed should be employed on a lower salary. John I am sure this position in the private sector would not command the salary and perks enjoyed by the outgoing director but if it does we cannot keep complaining about council officers salaries.,[/p][/quote]You REALLY REALLY cannot compare council salaries with the private sector at the top level - councils are given money - there's no competition for our buck,they're told where they have to spend around 95% of their buidget and quite often instead of being sacked for being useless or corrupt they get an OBE and or a golden goodbye Tttoommy
  • Score: 1

10:36pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Tttoommy says...

Tttoommy wrote:
malcolm calver wrote:
No body is saying that the council finances should be run on the cheap but much of the discussion of late has been on overpaid council officers.
To reduce the cost of staff, anyone newly employed should be employed on a lower salary.
John I am sure this position in the private sector would not command the salary and perks enjoyed by the outgoing director but if it does we cannot keep complaining about council officers salaries.,
You REALLY REALLY cannot compare council salaries with the private sector at the top level - councils are given money - there's no competition for our buck,they're told where they have to spend around 95% of their buidget and quite often instead of being sacked for being useless or corrupt they get an OBE and or a golden goodbye
PS the useless ppl at the top don't have national scrutiny DESPITE being paid more than any national name like Boris,Millipede or cameron or allen-muirhouse ;-) - they just usually tell their press dept - tell the press to shut the **** up or we'll with hold advertising and any press releases till they do what they ae told
[quote][p][bold]Tttoommy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]malcolm calver[/bold] wrote: No body is saying that the council finances should be run on the cheap but much of the discussion of late has been on overpaid council officers. To reduce the cost of staff, anyone newly employed should be employed on a lower salary. John I am sure this position in the private sector would not command the salary and perks enjoyed by the outgoing director but if it does we cannot keep complaining about council officers salaries.,[/p][/quote]You REALLY REALLY cannot compare council salaries with the private sector at the top level - councils are given money - there's no competition for our buck,they're told where they have to spend around 95% of their buidget and quite often instead of being sacked for being useless or corrupt they get an OBE and or a golden goodbye[/p][/quote]PS the useless ppl at the top don't have national scrutiny DESPITE being paid more than any national name like Boris,Millipede or cameron or allen-muirhouse ;-) - they just usually tell their press dept - tell the press to shut the **** up or we'll with hold advertising and any press releases till they do what they ae told Tttoommy
  • Score: 1

8:00am Sat 12 Jul 14

teifion says...

Indeview J Hudson wrote:
The new Director of Finance ( Jon Haswell) , responsible directly to the Chief Exexcutive, and the Head of Revenues and Assurance ( Kerry Macdermott ) which now includes responsibility for Internal audit under the Deputy Chief Executive were appointed internally with a reorganisation.
No remuneration details are available as far as I can see.
It was following a meeting with these officers that the Lay member and Chairman of the Audit Committee saw fit to tender his resignation.

Do we want our council's finances run on the cheap at this critical time?
Especially as most of our councillor's financial knowledge appears to be limited and reliant on the acceptance of officer's advice with out question. Mind you who would want to come here with its uncertain future?
The people at the top of the pile know how to milk the system, what's the guessing they're all in line for a HUGE golden goodbye If their jobs are no more in a few years - indeed some might be hoping that will happen?
[quote][p][bold]Indeview J Hudson[/bold] wrote: The new Director of Finance ( Jon Haswell) , responsible directly to the Chief Exexcutive, and the Head of Revenues and Assurance ( Kerry Macdermott ) which now includes responsibility for Internal audit under the Deputy Chief Executive were appointed internally with a reorganisation. No remuneration details are available as far as I can see. It was following a meeting with these officers that the Lay member and Chairman of the Audit Committee saw fit to tender his resignation. Do we want our council's finances run on the cheap at this critical time? Especially as most of our councillor's financial knowledge appears to be limited and reliant on the acceptance of officer's advice with out question. Mind you who would want to come here with its uncertain future?[/p][/quote]The people at the top of the pile know how to milk the system, what's the guessing they're all in line for a HUGE golden goodbye If their jobs are no more in a few years - indeed some might be hoping that will happen? teifion
  • Score: 2

4:00pm Sat 12 Jul 14

Welshman23 says...

Indeview J Hudson wrote:
The new Director of Finance ( Jon Haswell) , responsible directly to the Chief Exexcutive, and the Head of Revenues and Assurance ( Kerry Macdermott ) which now includes responsibility for Internal audit under the Deputy Chief Executive were appointed internally with a reorganisation.
No remuneration details are available as far as I can see.
It was following a meeting with these officers that the Lay member and Chairman of the Audit Committee saw fit to tender his resignation.

Do we want our council's finances run on the cheap at this critical time?
Especially as most of our councillor's financial knowledge appears to be limited and reliant on the acceptance of officer's advice with out question. Mind you who would want to come here with its uncertain future?
Good Luck to Mr Haswell I hope he has the backbone to question every amount spent including what is happening with the grants fiasco in Pembroke Dock. Do not be influenced by anybody be your own person and use your qualifications to root out any mis management of monies that are taken for us Pembrokeshire people.
[quote][p][bold]Indeview J Hudson[/bold] wrote: The new Director of Finance ( Jon Haswell) , responsible directly to the Chief Exexcutive, and the Head of Revenues and Assurance ( Kerry Macdermott ) which now includes responsibility for Internal audit under the Deputy Chief Executive were appointed internally with a reorganisation. No remuneration details are available as far as I can see. It was following a meeting with these officers that the Lay member and Chairman of the Audit Committee saw fit to tender his resignation. Do we want our council's finances run on the cheap at this critical time? Especially as most of our councillor's financial knowledge appears to be limited and reliant on the acceptance of officer's advice with out question. Mind you who would want to come here with its uncertain future?[/p][/quote]Good Luck to Mr Haswell I hope he has the backbone to question every amount spent including what is happening with the grants fiasco in Pembroke Dock. Do not be influenced by anybody be your own person and use your qualifications to root out any mis management of monies that are taken for us Pembrokeshire people. Welshman23
  • Score: 0

7:01pm Sat 12 Jul 14

KeanJo says...

Welshman, I believe John Haswell was responsible for the audit report on the Pembroke Dock grants fiasco !
Welshman, I believe John Haswell was responsible for the audit report on the Pembroke Dock grants fiasco ! KeanJo
  • Score: 1

8:43am Sun 13 Jul 14

Welshman23 says...

KeanJo wrote:
Welshman, I believe John Haswell was responsible for the audit report on the Pembroke Dock grants fiasco !
Thought so I was seeking clarification so another puppet in the Kremlin.
What is the point of the Welsh assembly and the audit office they seem to have no power to to bring local councils into line. Not sure now what is the biggest waste of money. It would seem that the leader of the assembly is powerless.
[quote][p][bold]KeanJo[/bold] wrote: Welshman, I believe John Haswell was responsible for the audit report on the Pembroke Dock grants fiasco ![/p][/quote]Thought so I was seeking clarification so another puppet in the Kremlin. What is the point of the Welsh assembly and the audit office they seem to have no power to to bring local councils into line. Not sure now what is the biggest waste of money. It would seem that the leader of the assembly is powerless. Welshman23
  • Score: 4

1:43pm Sun 13 Jul 14

teifion says...

Tttoommy wrote:
I REALLY hope these greedy stupid councillors will soon be using these services which have been cut back - that will be Karma
from years in "public service" I'm sure they'll know how to fiddle the system still - even in their old folks home - unless of course they've gone ga ga
[quote][p][bold]Tttoommy[/bold] wrote: I REALLY hope these greedy stupid councillors will soon be using these services which have been cut back - that will be Karma[/p][/quote]from years in "public service" I'm sure they'll know how to fiddle the system still - even in their old folks home - unless of course they've gone ga ga teifion
  • Score: 0

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